blackpanther666 [i]To be honest, I was a true fan of you guys. Here was my opinion about you: Cinders: She is must be someone awesome and a big and kind hearted wise person. She is the Oracle of the debate club, sage of the Fanpop club, probably the rather wise or sage of the Harry Potter club. wow. misanthrope86: The guru of the Fanpop club. The one who fights for the right of female. super! bri-marie: Oracle of the HP club. This girl must be a high qualified cool and friendly type girl. I wish I could talk with them![/i] And, yet, it is true. Because they are and that won't change, simply because you decided to feel differently about them after acting quite silly, just because everyone is a bit annoyed about this. [i]"No one here has lost their temper." How did you know that?[/i] Simple. Because Whiteflame, Bri-marie, Cinders and Misanthrope are experienced debaters. Debating involves not losing your temper. As soon as you do that, the debate is over. That's why we know that didn't happen - because none of them would lose their temper with you. They are simply making observations based upon what you said and did. [i]Oh the irony. Youclaimed to be insulted by simple, non-personal advice about how to better participate in a debate, and yet you are confused when people take issue with you directly insulting them personally?" I can say the same thing to you as well.[/i] No, you can't. Misanthrope wasn't the one claiming to want to have a debate. You were. It is quite obvious that you need a little work on your debating. Therefore, people suggested a better way of doing it, including myself, which you rejected and said you would do it your way. You can't expect people to debate with you, if you won't make it easier for them to answer the questions and have the debate. How on earth can you say the same thing about Misanthrope, who isn't the one trying to organise a debate, nor said anything that could possibly support the idea that you could say the same to her, because she never said anything insulting to you. [i]I didn't have any intention of insulting anyone. I really don't know why you are reacting that way. If I knew it would happen, I wouldn't have started the debate argument in the first place.[/i] This is irrelevant. The debate topic can go on, and it will go on better if you just understand that you need to cater to the people debating with, rather than actively ostracize their advice. Because, at the end of the day, your 'debate style' is just not effective. For the record, if you didn't mean to insult anyone, then you should have watched what you said. It is easy to have a misunderstanding over the internet, but even easier to just swallow your pride and make it a little easier for the people that are trying their best to contribute to your debate.

blackpanther666 I will still add to the piece I just wrote - the trouble is, I don't have much time to be able to do my referencing. Therefore, that piece is just my personal opinion on the idea of God and the Big Bang. I will add more later, when I can. And I will still do so, even if you don't come on to answer it. The next part will be all, and any, research I do on the subject. There will be references and it may be quite long. I will read through your hundreds of comments later and start doing some work on the rest of your points.

Nick16 " Gangnam Style " Oppa Gangnam Style Gangnam Style Najeneun ttasaroun inganjeoginyeoja Keopi hanjanui yeoyureul aneunpumgyeok inneun yeoja Bami omyeon simjangi tteugeowojineun yeoja Geureon banjeon inneun yeoja Naneun sanai Najeneun neomankeum ttasaroun geureon sanai Keopi sikgido jeone wonsyat ttaerineun sanai Bami omyeon simjangi teojyeobeorineun sanai Geureon sanai Areumdawo sarangseureowo Geurae neo hey geurae baro neo hey Areumdawo sarangseureowo Geurae neo hey geurae baro neo hey Jigeumbuteo gal dekkaji gabolkka Oppa Gangnam Style Gangnam Style Op, op, op, op Oppa Gangnam Style Gangnam Style Op, op, op, op Oppa Gangnam Style Eh, sexy lady Op, op, op, op Oppa Gangnam Style Eh, sexy lady Op, op, op, op Eh-eh-eh, eh-eh-eh Jeongsukhae boijiman nol ttaen noneun yeoja Ittaeda sipeumyeon mukkeotdeon meori puneun yeoja Garyeotjiman wenmanhan nochulboda yahan yeoja Geureon gamgakjeogin yeoja Naneun sanai Jeomjanha boijiman nol ttaen noneun sanai Ttaega doemyeon wanjeon michyeobeorineun sanai Geunyukboda sasangi ultungbultunghan sanai Geureon sanai Areumdawo sarangseureowo Geurae neo, hey, geurae baro neo, hey Areumdawo sarangseureowo Geurae neo, hey, geurae baro neo, hey Jigeumbuteo gal dekkaji gabolkka Oppa Gangnam Style Gangnam Style Op, op, op, op Oppa Gangnam Style Gangnam Style Op, op, op, op Oppa Gangnam Style Eh, sexy lady Op, op, op, op Oppa Gangnam Style Eh, sexy lady Op, op, op, op Eh-eh-eh, eh-eh-eh Ttwineun nom geu wie naneun nom Baby, baby Naneun mwol jom aneun nom Ttwineun nom geu wie naneun nom Baby, baby Naneun mwol jom aneun nom You know what I'm saying Oppa Gangnam Style Eh-eh-eh, eh-eh-eh Eh, sexy lady Op, op, op, op Oppa Gangnam Style Eh, sexy lady Op, op, op, op Eh-eh-eh, eh-eh-eh Oppa Gangnam Style

blackpanther666 I'm trying to decide about how I should react to this... Entirely random and completely irrelevant. It doesn't help that I despise this song. But, I'm wondering, what was your point in writing this? You obviously planned to do it, otherwise you wouldn't have gone to such an extremity to get the lyrics right. Should I be worried?

TheDirector When I first discovered this article, I was preparing to join in; however, after reading most of the confusion, I no longer take an interest... I feel like this entire debate has lost a significant amount of importance (even more so with the "Gangnam Style" reference). Therefore, should this...debate...continue, I will be a simple bystander.

Nick16 Blackpanther:"Should I be worried?" No. Ahem. Humor much? Thedirector: Please Ignore our chit chat and oppa gangnam style. It was to make a little entertainment. It was getting boring. After typing for four pages I have lost my nerve. Please ignore and focus on the debate. Please read the 5 pages to participate. You can't participate without knowing what happened here.

herpinaderpson A small guide on keeping cool with others: 1. Do NOT talk about religion. 2. Do NOT make a comment on religion, whether it's positive or not. 3. Ignore people who talk shit about your beliefs. Though i agree with your point, i think discussing religion on the internet is wrong. Trust me, I am an atheist.

whiteflame55 I disagree. I think that the discussion of religion should be encouraged, especially on open forums like this. Silence on the topic treats religion with kid gloves - it can't nor should it be exempt from public discourse. So lets talk about all religions, because as reasonable adults (at least most of us), we shoul recognize the importance of discussion as applying to all topics, no matter how some of us feel about them.

misanthrope86 Some more advice, Nick16: when you post totally irrelevant crap inbetween posting nonsensical "debates," you are exhibiting classic internet troll behaviour. Lighten the mood with relevant jokes and banter. Don't continue to insult people's intelligence. You keep demanding respect while being unwilling to extend any to anyone else. Here is a very simple question I would like answered: [b]where are you going next with this?[/b] Will you be responding to the counter-points raised? Or will you be continuing with the further points you said you were going to make? Or are you going to post junk to piss people off? A simple, clear answer is all I ask for.

Nick16 It looks like someone is biased here ^_^ Well, I'm going to establish The other two topics later when I'll get enough time. Be patient girl.Don't cry. You will get your topic.

misanthrope86 Patronising and passive-aggressive. With a hint of misogyny. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Nick16 "passive-aggressive" That's just your opinion. "a hint of misogyny" I think It should be moral to stop respecting you. I have shown enough care. If I wouldn't have cared, then I wouldn't have answered your question.

Nick16 Stop throwing your doubtful opinions like "a hint of misogyny" at others. I have always seen complaining about everything. I have always seen you showing disrespect to only male characters like Blindbandit92, Usui--takumi, adultswimperson and yet F4. Ever showed a little gratitude towards F4. You are labelling the male characters with your doubtful opinions like "a hint of misogyny" . I have never seen you atacking female characters. If you can call me a misogyny, I can call you a man hater.

misanthrope86 Clearly it is also at least Cinders' opinion as well. I didn't say you didn't care. I said you employed misogynist language to patronise me. The only person I know in that list is adultswimperson and he has been abusive in a variety of ways ever since he got here. As for the other people, I don't know who they are, but if I debated them then it was probably for a reason. I don't know what my gratitude to the F4 has to do with anything, but perhaps you could consider that you may not actually know every single detail of my every move here on Fanpop. I have debated a significant number of female Fanpop users, and those of unidentified gender, about misogynistic comments and attitudes. I call it when I see it, regardless of who is saying it. Nice try, but you are woefully misinformed yet again.

Nick16 I'm not a misogyny, so stop throwing me that term. Don't label everyone with that term so easily. I have also debated and argued with male characters here as well. And [b]No[/b], I'm not being passive agressive. [b]Atleast, Cinders gave a compliment to me.[/b] I used to respect you as I said before. Don't call me a mysogyny. I have never said anything against you from the begining. You are the one who came here first to attack me and advice me. This place is no good than the random club. Everyone attacking a mere person who is speaking up.

misanthrope86 I didn't call you a "misogyny" or a misogynist. I indicated the presence of a misogynistic tone, no doubt thrown at me deliberately given your previous "compliment." The use of misogynistic devices does not make one a misogynist. If I was going to call you a misogynist, I would have called you one directly. You are coming off as passive-aggressive, as evidenced by all the passive-aggression. I missed the memo that informed me I was required to compliment you as I critiqued your debate style. You have been patronising for the bulk of this "debate." Telling people not to interrupt you, assuming other people's debate points, refusing to answer questions directly, personally insulting the character of people who were trying to help not just you but everyone reading this debate. You are the one who opened this debate up, and then rejected people's attempts to engage with it. I have no problem with you speaking up. I encourage it. I want to know what you have to say. The problem is we can't actually extract that information from you. You have provided us with screeds of disjointed information and then whined when we critiqued it. You said you don't even believe all the stuff you've posted. How are we to know where your voice is in this? "[i]Everyone attacking a mere person who is speaking up.[/i]" - That is exactly what you did here. Why the surprise when it bites you in the ass? We have all tried to work with you here and you haven't compromised at all. That is what I have been critiquing and others have critiqued that too. Your response was to launch personal insults. So you can't be surprised when people call you out on that crap, especially in this spot. I got involved in this debate for two reasons. Firstly, because I care about the subject matter very deeply. And secondly, because this spot [i]encourages good debate[/i]. I love working out my debating muscles in an informal environment. I love hearing other people's opinions and arguing for or against them. That is how you learn, both about the world and about your own views. A number of us saw you making some mistakes and we stepped up to help you out, but you chose to ignore and insult. That was your choice. You've burnt a bridge or two here. But the beauty of this spot is that next time you have something to say, if you say it in a respectful manner and if you take into account that other people have things to say too, then everyone will be ready and willing to engage with you. The people in this spot only hold grudges against trolls. Your behaviour alone dictates whether or not you fall into that category.

Nick16 [Sorry for being late. I'm not a very active user of Fanpop. Nor do I have 200+ medals. Atleast, I have a life] Okay. I was silent about it from the start for a reason. I guess some people took it as a weakness. Now, I'm going to speak. I guess my sorry wasn't satisfying enough for some stubborn people here. They feel proud of being stubborn. I advise them to [b]enjoy their pride[/b]. 1) Nobody has the rights to criticize me here for establishing all the topics at a stretch. As misanthrope86 mentioned [b]I am the one[/b] who started this. I [b]am[/b] the one who to decide how this arguement will go on. I knew someone like misanthrope86 would complain about it. So I gave some rules and conditions at the begining. If someone really doesn't accept my conditions and policy of this debate, one should not join this debate and criticize me for it. One can say that he/she participated here because (s)he cares for this debate, but it has nothing to do with me. It's not my fault. I have given my rules (look at the first page). Don't like it? Leave it. If you are still stubborn and childish enought to join this debate, you can. But don't criticize me for mantaining my rules. Don't criticize me for your childishness. Perhaps, you should take your own advice. 2)"Passive-agressive" "evidience" Nobody asked for your evidience. As cinders mentioned- [b]This is a matter of perception.[/b] This is not a matter of "evidience" 3) [u]"Why does it bite your[/u] [b]ass"[/b]? Oh! Did I hurt your feelings? It looks like someone has lost her cool. [b]"ass"[/b] swear at me all you want, I don't mind. It's okay with me. [b]But, It's against the rules and policy of Fanpop[/b] It seems like you are no better than adultswimperson. 4)If someone thinks I'm a troll, why can't that person just ignore me? Ignore me and my debate. "we can't debate if you give us all that at once". My advice: Leave it. Don't criticize me for your incapability.

Nick16 5) Mysogyny? You haven't seen my every move either. So, you are judging my words as mysogyny tone. By that logic, I can also judge your words as man-hater tone or "a hint of man-hater", may be.

Nick16 By the way, guys I don't think I can establish other two topics. My exam has started. I need to focus on my study. Fanpop is not everything to me. If misanthrope wants to have the last words so badly, she can have it.

misanthrope86 *eyeroll* How original. A little odd though, coming from someone who dedicated a significant amount of time and energy to posting massive amounts of text that most people said they wouldn't be reading or responding to. Why do you believe you are immune from criticism? How come I don't have the right to free speech all of a sudden? Why are your "rules" more important than anyone else's "rules" here? Why should we accept your conditions? This is the [b]debate spot: [i]whatever you say, however you say it, it will be debated.[/b][/i] This cannot be a surprise to you. It is extremely stubborn and childish to layout "rules" here and expect that this gives you some kind of authority and exemption from critique. That is removing the debate part of debating. It is even more childish to attempt to insult people simply because they debated you in the debate spot. If you had been paying attention, I was criticising your attitude towards this debate. So were several others. You believe "ass" is a swear word, and that I directed it at you personally? Feel free to re-read that and see if you spot your error(s). I'll give you a hint: I said "Why the surprise when it bites you in the ass?", not the comment that you made up that makes no sense. Please see page 5 of the comments. On this page you make the statement, "[i]I was being passive agressive first, not now.[/i]" Given that you yourself admit to being passive aggressive, it isn't unreasonable to assume that what seems like passive aggression from you is in fact passive aggression. That is an environment that you created and you admitted that yourself. Are you debating yourself again? I'll say it again, since you seem to be having trouble grasping it: I'm here because you are saying harmful things in your so-called debate. Troll or not, what you are saying is harmful and I'll argue against it. Again, people's unwillingness to engage with you is your own fault. Multiple people have given you multiple reasons as to why they aren't participating any more. Not one of them said that they were incapable of debating your points. Not one of them hasn't already had this debate a million times. We are all well-equipped, as evidenced by the responses that have been made, to debate these topics in depth. The flaw in this particular instance is how you have presented us with this debate. And we told you how to fix that. You ignored it. *blinks* You really do not understand much of what I've said here, do you? I don't need to see anything else you have said anywhere in order to assess the hint of misogyny in that comment. The comment is right there. Did I say that everything you have said here has a hint of misogyny? Did I say you were a misogynist? Nope, I didn't. I suggested that your comment, "[i]Be patient girl.Don't cry[/i]" was a hint of misogyny. Feel free to debate that it isn't with any argument that actually makes sense. Except you can't use any words with vowels or consonants and you can only respond if you have eaten a carrot this week [Please note that the previous sentence is a sarcastic send-up of the idea of outlining unreasonable debate "rules" that you expect people to follow for no reason]. The word you are looking for is "misandry," by the way. If you could please point to any misandric tone you can find in the way I have written, please tell me where it is, as I would like to atone for it. Looks like you won't have to bother pretending to look for it and then making something up, as you have oh-so-graciously gifted me the last word. I will use my last word to genuinely wish you luck for your exams. May the force be with you.

Nick16 I love you, Misa. Will you marry me?

misanthrope86 Nope.

Cinders I've been following this, against my better judgement, but I think you misinterpreted me when I said that it's about perception. In this case, if misanthrope (and, for that matter, myself) interpret your comments as passive aggressive, it's the perception of the comments that matter, not the intention. In the same way that I apologized for coming off as rude, claiming that it was how the words were received that matter, and the fact that I had no intent of being rude did not matter, the same could be said of your passive aggression. Moreso, in fact, because multiple users have interpreted your statements in that way. As I stated when I apologized and took responsibility for my own words, intent doesn't matter - if someone is offended, they are offended, and so an apology is warranted. In the same way that someone might not mean offense when they use the phrase "That's so gay," but if it offends someone, that's what matters. In that sense, misanthrope is the one in the right here. And responding to an accusation of a misogynistic tone with "man-hater" is certainly the most original and non-misogynistic response to that that I have ever seen . Calling misanthrope a "little girl" and treating her as such is, at the very least, patronizing and disrespectful, and yes, at the most, misogynistic. In the way that men treating all women (regardless of whether they are younger or older than them) as little girls is misogynistic. And because one can interpret that phrase as anything in between those options (patronizing to misogynistic), and it's interpretation that counts, you are in the wrong here, and whining about it and throwing out the word "man-hater" really doesn't help your case... at all. I'm trying to be reasonable here, and tell you that I respect the time and effort that you have put into your epic comment spree here. Because I do - it must have taken you a lot of time to write all that out. Which is exactly why I want to help make sure that people read it and respond to it, as it deserves, because what's the point of putting in all that effort if no one ever reads it? That's why most debates here are small and deal with big topics (like homosexuality) one point at a time. It's true, the points are related, and may help each other, but essays on the topic already exist elsewhere on the internet - in fact, they even exist here, and I could link you to them easily if you would like to read them. But the comments were made for back-and-forth discussion. The articles section was made for, well, articles - rants, rambles, essays, stories, monologues - what ever you want to call it, if it's a long stream of text and paragraphs it belongs there. Comments are (relatively) short, and allow for a conversation, a dialogue. There's no "mono" in "dialogue." I am long-winded by nature, but that's generally because I use a lot of words to make one point, not a few words to make many. For example, I can sum up the entire (two) points of this comment in two simple sentences: What matters is how our words our received, not how they are intended. In order for a debate to take place, there needs to be dialogue. Once again - I respect the time and effort you put into this. I respect your points - I even have formulated responses to some of them, and just because I refuse to post them or participate further in this debacle does not mean that I don't have perfectly reasonable responses, and to insinuate or outright suggest that were the case is juvenile. Which brings me to the meat of my compliment sandwich - While I respect your effort and enthusiasm, I cannot respect your attitude or method of dealing with dissent. You need to learn to express yourself in a way that does not come off as aggressive and/or insulting, and to deal with criticism and dissent in a healthy way. No one here started out disrespecting you with their criticism. Even when you misinterpreted my frankness as rudeness, I apologized, but there is a limit to my first rule. If words are clearly unoffensive - such as "I like rainbows and butterflies!" and someone tries to take offense, it's absurd. My rule only stands in areas of ambiguity, and within reasonable limits. The concrit people provided was within reasonable limits - and you overreacted. There, that's my piece. I'd say I'm done, but I'll probably be back. EDIT: I missed the last piece of bread for my compliment sandwich - you try and do your research, and I respect that as well, and, of course, I have to have some sympathy for a verbose debater. ;)

DramaQueen1020 This is still going on? No offense, I usually like reading and like debate, but I got bored long ago. I just can't keep up with this, it'd take hours to read and reread, all these random topics, gagnam style (which, IMO, sucks, it's not serious, and doesn't belong in a debate) My head hurts from trying to piece some of this together, I feel like we'll need another forum to just keep this this going.

blackpanther666 To the person at the top, I suggest you don't post things like that. If people want to discuss religion over the internet, then they have every right to. @Nick16. It was a simple question, defining whether I should be worried about contributing to this, when you apparently seem so eager to make nonsense comments... I really can't be bothered answering any of the questions, nor following this until they are done in a different format.