Let it be noted that it took me about 20 minutes to find a picture of Kristen Stewert in Bella costume where she wasn't cross-eyed.
Anyway, I think Harry Potter promotes a more positive view of women for many reasons, but since I asked the question, I'll let you guys list some reasons.
its because it shows that you dont have to be "pretty" to be a wonderful person, you can be intellegent and even a little weird(or a whole lot weird,i can say proudly) and people will still love you.my eg. luna lovegood
hermoine granger
even ginny weasly
Of course Harry Potter presents a more positive portrayal of women. Let's go step by step. OK, we have the main female heroine: Hermione Granger. Hermione is kind, witty, intelligent, clever and an excellent friend. Everyone likes Hermione, even though she's a know-it-all she's a very charismatic girl. Harry and Ron NEED her and aren't complete without her. Ron even says "Where's Hermione when you need her?" in Chamber of Secrets. Not only that but she's brilliant role model to all young, impressional girls. She wants to change the world! She fights for what she believes in! And for me, that's a very admirable thing. She rises to become a very important worker in the Ministry of Magic, and changes predjuice about Blood Statuses.
OK, don't like Hermione? That's fine. Next in our Hall of Great Feminine Role Models in Harry Potter is Ginny Weasley. She's funny, gorgeous, strong and smart - even a bit of a feminist. She's fierce and an excellent student. She's great at sports. And - from what I've researched about James, Albus and Lily - a brilliant mother. When she leaves school she becomes a player for the Holyhead Harpies WHILST her husband does HIS job instead of LOOKING AFTER HER 24/7. Ginny, unlike Bella, can do things for herself! Sheesh.
Next: Luna Lovegood. Odd role model? Perhaps. But Luna is definetly a role model for me. She doesn't change herself to fit in with what's fashionable unlike SOME people (*cough*ALICE*cough*). She says what she thinks. She doesn't care what other people think of her - which is a contributing factor to why she is my favourite character in HP. She juggles her children and husband with her job as a famous wizarding naturalist (likewise with Hermione and Ginny with THEIR jobs).
Not to mention other older women like Molly Weasley, Bellatrix Lestrange, Professor McGonagall and Narcissa Malfoy. Molly Weasley is an extraordinairy mother to all of her children - even considering Harry and Hermione as one of her own. Bellatrix Lestrange - yes, she's evil. But we must all admit, she kicks ass. She rises to power with the Dark Lord and is a very skilled witch. Professor McGonagall is strict, but she looks after and cares for her students. I like her a lot. Narcissa Malfoy, she cares for her son. Near the end of Deathly Hallows, she doesn't care who wins. She just wants her son. She betrays Voldemort - risking her life - to save Draco and helping Harry win the fight against him.
OK, the Twilight girls, we'll start with the main character: Bella Swan. Now, Bella is a whiny, dependant, annoying - and apparently CRAZY - Mary-Sue. She can't do anything without the help of her Eddiekins. In fact, it doesn't even have to be Edward, just any hot guy that takes notice of her. When Jacob comes into the picture in New Moon she recovers immediatley, showing us that it isn't Edward she wants, she craves attention. Edward gives Bella the chance to make something of herself - to get a proper education and a career. But she turns that down to become a housewife. What's that showing impressionable girls?! To abandon any hope of having a career and become a 1950's housewife? Looking after the children and her husband? How can you even compare to the great feminists that are Hermione Granger, Ginny Weasley and Luna Lovegood?
Rosalie and Alice. I love Rosalie, truly I do. She's my favourite character in the whole series (no, it's not a saga, it's a SERIES.) But I don't see how she could be a good role model, really. Perhaps that's Meyer's fault. She got so hot on the Edward/Bella/Jacob triangle that she never really developed her other characters. Same with Alice. She's nice and sweet. But lacks anything else. She's pretty and fashionable. But that's it. Does it really matter? Sure, it's fine to care about how you look, but why would you spend all your time doing that? What about more important things? Like doing good in the world? OK, Esme. Same with Alice and Rosalie, really. She's nice enough, but she hasn't got any depth. She's just "Carlisle's wife" to me. Perhaps others interpreted her differently. I don't know. But that's what I think of her.
So, in conclusion. Hermione, Ginny and Luna grow to be great feminist role models: changing the world; playing sports and researching exotic creatures - all of doing the things they love whilst having wonderful and loving families. Whilst Bella, Alice, Rosalie and Esme are stuck at home - possibly doing what they love, but they are no role models for this generation of females. I fear for the future of my gender if these characters will be the Martin Luther King Jr and Nelson Mandela of today. Sorry for the rambling, but I wanted to explain myself fully. :)
EDIT: I'd just like to say; that's an adorable picture of Emma/Hermione. She looks so cute! :D
EDIT EDIT: I'd just like to apologize for some of the horrendous spelling mistakes. My laptop is spazzing out and won't let me delete one letter without deleting the whole paragraph. :P
I must say, I have to give Twilight credit for ONE positive female role model, and that's Leah Clearwater. Leah is my favourite character in the entire series and it's because she's the only woman who is able to be independent. She's a strong woman who has to deal with a lot but she never throws herself off a cliff or runs away to wherever the fuck the Cullens ran off to in New Moon. She is, however, shown to be a bitch for being independent which makes me very cranky. She's the only female wolf and has no privacy from a pack of about 10 teenage boys and men. While all this is happening, she has to deal with her boyfriend unceremoniously dumping her after deciding he's in love with her cousin, who was like her sister. Also, everyone around her is pairing up left, right and center (and some are so desperate they have to hook up with babies) while she's left alone, but after being a bit upset for a while, she gets on with her life continues to live. I think Leah is a positive role model, but Stephenie Meyer shows her in a way that makes her seem bitchy and negative, so I'm not entirely sure if she should count.
Overall, one girl can't counteract the negativity shown by the rest of the females in the series, so Harry Potter still wins.
^What Annie said. I'd really like some reasons for Twilight on here, and if you decide not to comment, it just seems like you go through without reading the questions and voting for all the Twilight options. I've already given Twilight some starting ground, because I really like Leah and I think she should be mentioned, but overall, I think Twilight is very sexist so I'd like to hear some points to back up your choices Twilighters.
Wow, someone picked Twilight? Seriously? Are you a ghost from the 1800's or something? Why would you pick Twilight? Let's compare the two.
The main female in Harry Potter is Hermione Granger, and the main female in Twilight is Bella Swan. Both books claim that these girls are extremely bright. With Hermione, you can see this. Not only does she get top grades, but she is able to figure out riddles and how to get out of tight situations. She was the one who knew how to get past the Devil's Snare in Philosopher's Stone, and she was the one who could solve the riddle. She was the one who was able to get Harry, Ron and herself out of Xenophilius Lovegood's house without arising suspicion and making sure the Death Eaters don't kill Xenophilius for lying, and she had only seconds to figure it out. She is the one who stops Harry from jumping right into action without thinking so that they can think it through first. What does Bella do? We are only told she gets good grades. She certainly never does anything intelligent; in fact, quite the opposite. Seriously? Jumping off a cliff? Going to James without informing the Cullens? Standing around looking pretty while Edward is fighting Victoria? Thinking, "Oh, he stalks me, but he's hot, so that makes it romantic!"? Taking forever to figure out he's a vampire? Then walking down a dark alley in the city at night all alone? Oh, yes, really intelligent. Then, Hermione can fight for herself. She is a strong woman who can live through a lot of pain and still keep fighting. She had to erase her parent's memory to keep them safe, and she fought on. When Ron left her in Deathly Hallows, she was extremely upset, but she moved on, and she was able to think straight and help Harry fight. What about Bella? She doesn't care about her family or friends, so giving them up doesn't mean much anyway. But when Edward left her? She went into zombie mode FOR MONTHS. She cannot live without a man. It's pathetic. Then, look at their hobbies. They are both told to be book worms. We can see this with Hermione. She is always reading and studying and looking to know more. She NEVER considers giving up reading, and even insists that the trio bring along a whole bunch of books while traveling. Bella? We see her reading ONCE, very briefly, at the very beginning of Eclipse. That is not a hobby. Her REAL hobby is cooking and cleaning for her dad. Um, how is that NOT anti-feminist? Then, after Deathly Hallows, Hermione went back to Hogwarts to finish that year of school she missed! Bella didn't even WANT to go to college! She just skipped college and got pregnant at 18, and this was made to look like a GOOD thing. Harry and Ron need Hermione. Without her, they would have been dead many times over, as well as other characters in the books (Ginny, Sirius, Buckbeak, etc). Who needs Bella? Nothing major would have happened if she weren't in the picture. She doesn't count for anything, really.
Let's look at some other characters now. Harry Potter has all sorts of strong females, such as Ginny Weasley, who loves Quidditch and can fight for herself, Luna Lovegood, who is quirky and deep and also can fight for herself, Tonks, who is married to a werewolf and died to give her son (Teddy) a better future, Bellatrix Lestrange, who is Voldemort's strongest and favorite Death Eater and responsible for torturing Neville's parents into madness, Molly Weasley, who killed Bellatrix in defense of her children, and MANY more. There is a weak female in Harry Potter. She is not in the movies, and her name is Winky the house elf, and the weakness of her character doesn't lead to a happy ending for her; it leads to her becoming a depressed drunkard. How about Twilight's females? There's Alice Cullen, who... um... what does she do that makes her strong again? Well, at least SHE has somewhat of a personality. But she is a stereotypical female; she loves fashion and shopping and loves to dress up Bella and throw parties! There's Esme, who tried to kill herself because her baby died (which is really sad, don't get me wrong. I feel for her, but you can't really call her a strong woman, I'm afraid). Then there's Rosalie, one of the few strong females in Twilight. However, because she is strong, she is seen as a selfish bitch. Same with Leah Clearwater. They had to deal with horrible things in their pasts, and they are seen as selfish bitches because they aren't perfectly content with Bella getting everything handed over to her on a platter while working for absolutely nothing. Bella can complain all she wants, but if either of them utter one little complaint, they are whiny and shallow. Then there's Emily Young. She decided that Sam almost ripping her face off is "romantic" and a sign of "devotion". All the men are stronger than all the women in Twilight, and all the men lead their girlfriends and that is supposed to look like a good relationship.
great comments! CONGRATULATIONS ANNIE !!!!!!
think they should not here twilight. SERIOUSLY !!!!!!!!! TWILIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!! Protects everything except the rights of women.
I know, who put twilight here used it to fire on a desert island! So I think (very unlikely) that protects the rights of women, but barely.
Twilight makes woman out to be helpless objects. You have to look good to be worth anything in Twilight and the main reason for a females existence is to serve their man and have children.
In Harry Potter looks aren't everything. Hermione (going by the books not the films) isn't the prettiest person ever and doesn't seem to really care about her looks. She is also a lot smarter than the which shows she isn't useless unlike in Twilight where Edward knows more than Bella about everything when really even if someone had been alive that long there would still be something they weren't all knowledgeable on. All the girls can fight for themselves - Hermone, Ginny, Luna, Molly, Tonks.. need I go on? Yet Bella gets circled by a bunch of youths and she stands there going: OH NOES! I'M GOING TO GET ATTACKED.
Death eaters can kill you with a flick of a wand you have to fight back. All Bella had to do was kick and run but no, everytime she is in danger dear Edward or Jacob must run in and save her.
Another thing I'd like to mention: The werewolves imprinting? What a load of bull. The females have no choice they get so attracted to the attention or whatever and can't not love the person? Females are not like that.
I agree with every point above and have raised them in many debates about Twilight being worse than Harry Potter.
The women in Harry Potter are extremely outgoing. There's Hermione, who has stuck with Harry till the end, and we all know he wouldn't have been able to defeat Voldemort without her wit and wisdom. There's also Molly Weasley, who is shown to be just as skilled as witch as any of the men. There's also Luna, who at first glance appears to be an awkward girl who's not good at much, but she proves to be just the opposite by showing of how smart, brave, and skilled she is. Let's also not forget that in the Wizarding world, they had had a woman minester waaay before women were considered to be equal to men in the muggle world.
Twilight, on the other hand, sends a message of women being weak. While Edward is fighting and protecting his "family," where is Bella? Oh, that's right, she's sitting trembling in a little corner. And have you noticed none of the leading women in Twilight have jobs? They're all home cooking or cleaning, while the men have fun watching the football game. But that's fine with them. Especially Bella, she'd rather stay home taking care of her dad instead of going to a good college. And whatever happened to independence? Bella cannot be left alone without a man or she'll go into a deep deppression for months. Wow, what a great example of a strong minded woman(sarcasm)
I don't see how anyone could have thought Twilight portrays women better. They'd have to be completely delusional, or else living a hundred years ago.
What everyone else has said; Hermione, Luna and Ginny: three unbelievably courageous girls, bros before hoes, actually have opinions about life other than their sparkly dead boyfriend, know how to stand up for what they believe in (Bella doesn't believe in anything, really, other than her bf), don't go completely useless without their guy (even after Ron left, Hermione just battled on, dying inside, but there for Harry as a friend, Ginny gave Harry one hell'a'kiss for his birthday when she found out what he was doing, instead of having sex with him and ripping up some pillows and getting herself pregnant for his seventeenth), Luna doesn't care what others think, her mother's dead, and yet she's so extraordinarily strong, inside and out. She's witty, creative, and completely crazy. I love them all. :D
^ Could you please explain your answer? We actually see the women in Harry Potter fight, in Twilight it's occasionally implied, but the men usually do everything for them. I'd really love it you could give me some examples and comparisons between the series to explain how you came to that conclusion, because we haven't had a pro-Twilight explanation on the page yet, and I find the books very sexist so I'd really like someone to explain.
Yes, zanhar1. I would love to see your explaination for your choice. I also find the Twilight books sexist and would be intrested to see how it's positive for women. :)
well in the first movie i thought it was brave of bella to try to save her mother from james in the bellt studio (even though it was a trap) it also showed that girls dont always cry when in pain, even though bella was practicly dieing (before edward came) she did'nt cry and cointinued to fight. in short it shows bella and the other twilight girls are brave and quite tough. also alice cullen shows responsibility when warning bella about edward about to kill himself and once again unlike most girls in tv shows she didnt cry she actully did something and saved his life.
^ I like your reasoning, good point. You said "first movie", rather than "first book", which I found slightly odd. The books were released first which makes them the official canon, and when picking out points relating to the series my automatic thought would've been to go with books. Oh well.
My only issue with your point is that you've only stated your thoughts on Twilight, but you haven't compared it to Harry Potter. As this is the entire point of the question, could you, or someone else leaning towards Twilight, do a comparison, because we now know why you think Twilight shows women in a positive light, but why do you think it's MORE positive than Harry Potter (or why Harry Potter is negative, either way).
Also, what did you think of Bella in the other books? I found she did pretty much bugger all after the whole 'saving her mum' thing. Saving Edward just showed her stupidity. He's abusive, why would she get him back?
The best thing about Hermione is that she was not the main character's (Harry's) girlfriend but she stood her ground and has her own recognition in the books. She is what makes the trio succeed.
Book 1: Devil's Snare.
Book 2: Basilisk.
Book 3: Time Turner.
Book 4: The 3 Tasks (Accio worked on the portkey that saved Harry's life. Taught by Hermione).
Book 5: Dumbledore's Army. Warned Harry about Voldemort before going to the Ministry to save Sirius.
Book 6: Fought Death Eaters in Hogwarts.
Book 7: Helped find the Horcruxes and finally helped destroy Voldemort.
In Twilight, Isabella Swan (she hates being called Isabella right? *wicked grin*) uses one guy, when he leaves goes to the other and when the first one returns, goes back to him and so on.
Book 1: Edward
Book 2: Jacob
Book 3: Edward and Jacob
Book 4: Edward and Jacob
I know the answer, I know the answer, pick me!
It's Harry Potter!
Hermione is my favourite book character, and, for want of another word,my idol. She shows strength even in the hardest times. Harry and Ron couldn't do it without her.
Ginny is strong, determined and skilled. Lily died to save her son- how brave is that? Luna doesn't care what others think.
It's people like Hermione, Luna, Ginny and Lily the next generation of women should be modelling themselves on, not whiny Bella Swan and Alice look-at-me-I'm-so-pretty-lets-go-shopping Cullen.
well in harry potter herminoi (sorry bad spelling) cried when she turned into a cat rather than doing anything about it (bella proably would've tryed to fix it like how she tryed to get edward back) ginny let herself be tricked into helping voldmort (bella never let james trick her) and just so you know i dont mean to insult harry potter in any way its a great book/show too.
^ When Hermione was turned into a cat she was dealing with magic beyond what she had been taught. There was no way she could possibly know how to fix what had happened.
Bella would've tried to fix it? More like, Bella would get Edward or Jacob to fix it for her, because she's a woman and can't do anything for herself.
Ginny was possessed, she didn't even know what was happening when she did Voldemort's bidding.
Bella did get tricked by James. Remember that whole fiasco where he pretended he held her mum captive and she came running without even considering that it could be a trap? Very intelligent, Bella.
Think about the way the girls in each series approach school, work, money, family, friendship, romance, danger, etc.
Also, example:
Ginny is left by Harry for her own safety. She is upset, but understanding and continues on with her life, knowing that she still loves him. She continues to lead the students, along with Neville and Luna, in rebellion against Voldemort, Snape and the Carrows, fighting for what she believes in, and holding it together because she isn't completely dependent on a man.
Bella is left by Edward for her own safety. She turns into a zombie for 4 months, cuts off contact with all her friends, sticks her head in the sand, and refuses to do anything. As soon as the next hot guy comes along, she's totally fine, apart from the whole "I'm going to put myself and my 'friends' in life-threatening situations just so I can hallucinate my ex-boyfriend's voice" thing.
Harry Potter shows females who don't need their men to fight for them. In tw*l*ght all Bella does is sit there are her lovers kill all the bad guys for her. Hermy, Ginny, Luna, Tonks, Mrs. Weasley for crying out loud, all express feministic qualities that show how strong they really are. They don't need people to fight for them. They are just bad-ass all by themselves.
We have Hermione Granger. She's a beautiful, strong woman who fights for what she believes in, like elf rights. She also fights for prejudging wizards and witches blood. She'll fight for everyone to be equal. Here's how she's better than Bella: In book one, she helps bring the trio together by nearly dieing from a troll, which was 12ft, in which Harry and Ron had to go into the girls bathroom and save her. She also helped Harry get through that ring of fire by answering the riddle and earning Gryffindor house 50 points. In book 2, she brewed a really compliacated potion, for fans of twilight it's the polyjuice potion which allows the drinker to transform into a person for one hour, and may have gotten cat's hair instead of Millecent Bulstrode's hair, but she sucessfully brewed the potion, evidence from what happened to Harry and Ron. She actullay solved the mystery of the chamber of secrets instead of Harry and Ron. In the third book, HERMIONE SLAPS MALFOY! Right across the face! She stands up for Hagrid in his case agaisnt Buckbeak. She quits a school subject and gets a 113% on her muggle-studies test(she wanted to study muggles from a wizarrd's point of view).In the fourth book, she stands up for herself as Ron accuses her of "fraternizing with the enemy". She finds that Viktor Krum has a little crush on her. She also starts S.P.E.W, a sponsor for elf rights. She solves the mystery of how Rita Skeeter's getting the scoop on her and her friends after she's banned on the Hogwarts grounds. She was the one that showed Harry all those spells to help him win the Tri-Wizard Tournement. In the fifth book, she becomes a prefect and continues S.P.E.W. She supports Harry as he prepares to battle Lord Voldemort in his fifth year. In the sixth book, Hermione get's jelous of Lavender Brown as she starts going out with Ron. She finally shows her love for Ron, and her hatred for him too, by using the oppugno spell and tries to get Ron jelous by going to Professor Slughorn's Christmas party with Cormac McLaggen. In the seventh book, she's become even more independent, and helps the other two get out of their trouble. She helps them apparate everywhere, for she passed her apparation test the best, and starts showing even stronger feelings for Ron, like how she cried when he disapparated away from the campsite after Harry and Ron had a fight, Hermione punches him in the stomach after he returns, how she solved the mystery of the Deathly Hallows along with Harry, how she FINALLY kissed Ron, and much, much more. She is the heart of the Harry Potter heroines and she rocks way better than Bella.
Next, we have Ginny Weasley, the love interest of Harry Potter. We don't see her in the first book, but in the second book, she's the star of the show, being the one controlled by Lord Voldemort(aka Tom Riddle), the one who just started her adventure at Hogwarts. She's not as smart as Hermione, but she does grab a lot of boys attention, like Dean Thomas, and of course, Harry. She plays a big role in the fifth, probably being a little sad that Harry kissed Cho. She was awesome with the reducto spell. The Sixth book, she FINALLY gets together with Harry. Though it's sad that they break up during Dumbledore's funeral, it's for her safety. The seventh book, she almost dies, which causes Mrs. Weasley to OWN Bellatrix Lestrange.
More characters are Luna Lovegood, a strange and quirky girl, who's quite strong and independent, Bellatrix Lestrange, Voldemort's best supporter, Molly Weasley, Who OWNED Bellatrix to protect her children, Nymphadora Tonks, who didn't let Lupin being a werewolf get in the way of marrying him, and having Teddy, dieing for her son. I think Harry Potter has much more female heroines than Twilight does.
you do bring up good points, but it'd be kinda akward to change my answer after defending twilight, anmd thanks for not being rude about my opinion (on some spots i get insulted for my opinions espicly since im usually always with the minority)
In HP, Hermione is really upset when Ron leaves in DH, but she deals with it. She and Harry go to Godric's Hollow, and she saves his life.
In TS, when Edward leaves Bella, she is really upset and wanders around like a zombie.
Also, when Ron comes back, Hermione doesn't forgive him easily and is even ready to attack him.Whereas Bella readily welcomes Edward back after he abandons her.
Ok first off: I picked Harry Potter because in Twilight, Bella is the typical, cliche, clingy girl that needs some random pretty boy to cling to. She is also you know, the typical 'I'm really smart and shy and oddly beautiful even though I think I'm terribly ugly and trip all over myself." Ok, yea, come on, pick something different? And also, that makes people think that that's what the typical teenage girl is like, ya know? But MOST of us aren't like that. And Harry Potter does a good job of showing that we aren't all like that. You want to know why? Two words: Character development
HP has Hermione, who is strong, brave and very smart, Ginny, who is brave, funny and kind, Luna, who will be herself even if she gets picked on for it, Lily and Tonks, who both died to save their children
Twilight has... well, um, no one
Tonks and Bella are very much alike in the term of clumsiness, and yet I like Tonks better. Why? Because even though she's clumsy, she has a personality, which is quirky and fun. Both are devastated when they couldn't get their lover to be with them (Remus and Edward), but Tonks, though gloomy and has less-colored hair, still works hard for the Order and helps fight the Death Eaters when they're summoned to Hogwarts. (Oh, and when Ron left, Hermione was also miserable, but that didn't stop her from keep fighting with Harry because she know what's really important).
Now I'm okay with girls that cry when they got dumped, but only if they moan and whine for less than a month. I've been broken hearted, and I cried so much that my eyes had those stupid puffy things under them. But the thing is, I moved on. The characters in Harry Potter showed that if a guy really is your soulmate and is meant for you, they won't go anywhere, so you shouldn't be miserable if they leave you. Ginny and Hermione both moved on, but in the end, they marry the boys that they loved, and they didn't even go to Bella's zombie-mode to get them.
Someone said about Esme, and I love that she/he brought that up! Esme committed suicide because her baby died. Molly, on the other hand, had lost her son, and what did she do? She finished Bellatrix so she couldn't hurt anyone else (or in this case, her family). Clearly that explains how Molly > Esme.
Another one, because I'm in the mood for ranting. Arabella Figg and Leah Clearwater are basically in the same situation. Both are an outcasts of their society, and are often underestimated. But, Mrs. Figg turns out to be the one that testified that there are really Dementors in Little Hangleton and they had attacked Harry, thus clearing him of all charges. Leah was portrayed, for lack of better words, as a selfish bitch, as said before. She had a bitter past, and I don't blame her to be so bitter around the boys (especially the ones that could read her mind). I just, I dunno, expected her to stood up for herself and say, "Yes, I'm broken-hearted, and yes, being a shape-shifter sucks. But please, just respect me because I'm more than just a whiny girl," or at least do something that made her important to the plot and finally showing those boys that she could actually do something.
Harry potter, because Bella would have died in the first book if it wasn't for Edward and in harry potter the girls can clearly take care of themselves. Then there's the fact that Bella just sat around for months doing nothing but crying and stuff like that when Edward left in New Moon and showed almost no sign of getting better until he came back.Cho was sad for a little while then got over it and moved on after Cedric died. Cho's boyfriend DIED and she got over it, Bella's boyfriend left and she basically became an empty shell of sorrow. Plus you never saw Cho jumping off a cliff just to hear her ex's voice again. The only time Bella was able to protect herself was when she became a vampire while the HP girl's take care of themselves (and the boys in many cases) all the time. So if a positive portrayal of women is that they can't live without boys then yes it is Twilight but the last time I checked girls do not need boys to save themselves all the time so Harry Potter wins hands down.
and Zanhar1 Bella tried to get Edward back after months of being an empty shell and technically James did trick her or did you just forget about him using her tapes that her mom made to get her to come to the ballet studio? didn't notice that someone else had already said that, sorry
What? Aww come on Potheads you guys left no answers for me :(
XD Kidding =P I agree with all the Harry Potter peeps. And yeah got nothing else to say really, that I can think of right now. Everybody here said it all :D
But, I think Hermione's portrayal of women is more positive. Hermione shows that it's okay to be single. She also proves that you can have guy friends that you don't have to be in a couple with. She values the importance of friendship. She shows us how important it is to have brains(cleverness), and the importance of working hard.
Anyway, I think Harry Potter promotes a more positive view of women for many reasons, but since I asked the question, I'll let you guys list some reasons.
hermoine granger
even ginny weasly
OK, don't like Hermione? That's fine. Next in our Hall of Great Feminine Role Models in Harry Potter is Ginny Weasley. She's funny, gorgeous, strong and smart - even a bit of a feminist. She's fierce and an excellent student. She's great at sports. And - from what I've researched about James, Albus and Lily - a brilliant mother. When she leaves school she becomes a player for the Holyhead Harpies WHILST her husband does HIS job instead of LOOKING AFTER HER 24/7. Ginny, unlike Bella, can do things for herself! Sheesh.
Next: Luna Lovegood. Odd role model? Perhaps. But Luna is definetly a role model for me. She doesn't change herself to fit in with what's fashionable unlike SOME people (*cough*ALICE*cough*). She says what she thinks. She doesn't care what other people think of her - which is a contributing factor to why she is my favourite character in HP. She juggles her children and husband with her job as a famous wizarding naturalist (likewise with Hermione and Ginny with THEIR jobs).
Not to mention other older women like Molly Weasley, Bellatrix Lestrange, Professor McGonagall and Narcissa Malfoy. Molly Weasley is an extraordinairy mother to all of her children - even considering Harry and Hermione as one of her own. Bellatrix Lestrange - yes, she's evil. But we must all admit, she kicks ass. She rises to power with the Dark Lord and is a very skilled witch. Professor McGonagall is strict, but she looks after and cares for her students. I like her a lot. Narcissa Malfoy, she cares for her son. Near the end of Deathly Hallows, she doesn't care who wins. She just wants her son. She betrays Voldemort - risking her life - to save Draco and helping Harry win the fight against him.
OK, the Twilight girls, we'll start with the main character: Bella Swan. Now, Bella is a whiny, dependant, annoying - and apparently CRAZY - Mary-Sue. She can't do anything without the help of her Eddiekins. In fact, it doesn't even have to be Edward, just any hot guy that takes notice of her. When Jacob comes into the picture in New Moon she recovers immediatley, showing us that it isn't Edward she wants, she craves attention. Edward gives Bella the chance to make something of herself - to get a proper education and a career. But she turns that down to become a housewife. What's that showing impressionable girls?! To abandon any hope of having a career and become a 1950's housewife? Looking after the children and her husband? How can you even compare to the great feminists that are Hermione Granger, Ginny Weasley and Luna Lovegood?
Rosalie and Alice. I love Rosalie, truly I do. She's my favourite character in the whole series (no, it's not a saga, it's a SERIES.) But I don't see how she could be a good role model, really. Perhaps that's Meyer's fault. She got so hot on the Edward/Bella/Jacob triangle that she never really developed her other characters. Same with Alice. She's nice and sweet. But lacks anything else. She's pretty and fashionable. But that's it. Does it really matter? Sure, it's fine to care about how you look, but why would you spend all your time doing that? What about more important things? Like doing good in the world? OK, Esme. Same with Alice and Rosalie, really. She's nice enough, but she hasn't got any depth. She's just "Carlisle's wife" to me. Perhaps others interpreted her differently. I don't know. But that's what I think of her.
So, in conclusion. Hermione, Ginny and Luna grow to be great feminist role models: changing the world; playing sports and researching exotic creatures - all of doing the things they love whilst having wonderful and loving families. Whilst Bella, Alice, Rosalie and Esme are stuck at home - possibly doing what they love, but they are no role models for this generation of females. I fear for the future of my gender if these characters will be the Martin Luther King Jr and Nelson Mandela of today. Sorry for the rambling, but I wanted to explain myself fully. :)
EDIT: I'd just like to say; that's an adorable picture of Emma/Hermione. She looks so cute! :D
EDIT EDIT: I'd just like to apologize for some of the horrendous spelling mistakes. My laptop is spazzing out and won't let me delete one letter without deleting the whole paragraph. :P
Long comment, hehe
But great job, Annie! :D
Overall, one girl can't counteract the negativity shown by the rest of the females in the series, so Harry Potter still wins.
The main female in Harry Potter is Hermione Granger, and the main female in Twilight is Bella Swan. Both books claim that these girls are extremely bright. With Hermione, you can see this. Not only does she get top grades, but she is able to figure out riddles and how to get out of tight situations. She was the one who knew how to get past the Devil's Snare in Philosopher's Stone, and she was the one who could solve the riddle. She was the one who was able to get Harry, Ron and herself out of Xenophilius Lovegood's house without arising suspicion and making sure the Death Eaters don't kill Xenophilius for lying, and she had only seconds to figure it out. She is the one who stops Harry from jumping right into action without thinking so that they can think it through first. What does Bella do? We are only told she gets good grades. She certainly never does anything intelligent; in fact, quite the opposite. Seriously? Jumping off a cliff? Going to James without informing the Cullens? Standing around looking pretty while Edward is fighting Victoria? Thinking, "Oh, he stalks me, but he's hot, so that makes it romantic!"? Taking forever to figure out he's a vampire? Then walking down a dark alley in the city at night all alone? Oh, yes, really intelligent. Then, Hermione can fight for herself. She is a strong woman who can live through a lot of pain and still keep fighting. She had to erase her parent's memory to keep them safe, and she fought on. When Ron left her in Deathly Hallows, she was extremely upset, but she moved on, and she was able to think straight and help Harry fight. What about Bella? She doesn't care about her family or friends, so giving them up doesn't mean much anyway. But when Edward left her? She went into zombie mode FOR MONTHS. She cannot live without a man. It's pathetic. Then, look at their hobbies. They are both told to be book worms. We can see this with Hermione. She is always reading and studying and looking to know more. She NEVER considers giving up reading, and even insists that the trio bring along a whole bunch of books while traveling. Bella? We see her reading ONCE, very briefly, at the very beginning of Eclipse. That is not a hobby. Her REAL hobby is cooking and cleaning for her dad. Um, how is that NOT anti-feminist? Then, after Deathly Hallows, Hermione went back to Hogwarts to finish that year of school she missed! Bella didn't even WANT to go to college! She just skipped college and got pregnant at 18, and this was made to look like a GOOD thing. Harry and Ron need Hermione. Without her, they would have been dead many times over, as well as other characters in the books (Ginny, Sirius, Buckbeak, etc). Who needs Bella? Nothing major would have happened if she weren't in the picture. She doesn't count for anything, really.
Let's look at some other characters now. Harry Potter has all sorts of strong females, such as Ginny Weasley, who loves Quidditch and can fight for herself, Luna Lovegood, who is quirky and deep and also can fight for herself, Tonks, who is married to a werewolf and died to give her son (Teddy) a better future, Bellatrix Lestrange, who is Voldemort's strongest and favorite Death Eater and responsible for torturing Neville's parents into madness, Molly Weasley, who killed Bellatrix in defense of her children, and MANY more. There is a weak female in Harry Potter. She is not in the movies, and her name is Winky the house elf, and the weakness of her character doesn't lead to a happy ending for her; it leads to her becoming a depressed drunkard. How about Twilight's females? There's Alice Cullen, who... um... what does she do that makes her strong again? Well, at least SHE has somewhat of a personality. But she is a stereotypical female; she loves fashion and shopping and loves to dress up Bella and throw parties! There's Esme, who tried to kill herself because her baby died (which is really sad, don't get me wrong. I feel for her, but you can't really call her a strong woman, I'm afraid). Then there's Rosalie, one of the few strong females in Twilight. However, because she is strong, she is seen as a selfish bitch. Same with Leah Clearwater. They had to deal with horrible things in their pasts, and they are seen as selfish bitches because they aren't perfectly content with Bella getting everything handed over to her on a platter while working for absolutely nothing. Bella can complain all she wants, but if either of them utter one little complaint, they are whiny and shallow. Then there's Emily Young. She decided that Sam almost ripping her face off is "romantic" and a sign of "devotion". All the men are stronger than all the women in Twilight, and all the men lead their girlfriends and that is supposed to look like a good relationship.
think they should not here twilight. SERIOUSLY !!!!!!!!! TWILIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!! Protects everything except the rights of women.
I know, who put twilight here used it to fire on a desert island! So I think (very unlikely) that protects the rights of women, but barely.
In Harry Potter looks aren't everything. Hermione (going by the books not the films) isn't the prettiest person ever and doesn't seem to really care about her looks. She is also a lot smarter than the which shows she isn't useless unlike in Twilight where Edward knows more than Bella about everything when really even if someone had been alive that long there would still be something they weren't all knowledgeable on. All the girls can fight for themselves - Hermone, Ginny, Luna, Molly, Tonks.. need I go on? Yet Bella gets circled by a bunch of youths and she stands there going: OH NOES! I'M GOING TO GET ATTACKED.
Death eaters can kill you with a flick of a wand you have to fight back. All Bella had to do was kick and run but no, everytime she is in danger dear Edward or Jacob must run in and save her.
Another thing I'd like to mention: The werewolves imprinting? What a load of bull. The females have no choice they get so attracted to the attention or whatever and can't not love the person? Females are not like that.
I agree with every point above and have raised them in many debates about Twilight being worse than Harry Potter.
The women in Harry Potter are extremely outgoing. There's Hermione, who has stuck with Harry till the end, and we all know he wouldn't have been able to defeat Voldemort without her wit and wisdom. There's also Molly Weasley, who is shown to be just as skilled as witch as any of the men. There's also Luna, who at first glance appears to be an awkward girl who's not good at much, but she proves to be just the opposite by showing of how smart, brave, and skilled she is. Let's also not forget that in the Wizarding world, they had had a woman minester waaay before women were considered to be equal to men in the muggle world.
Twilight, on the other hand, sends a message of women being weak. While Edward is fighting and protecting his "family," where is Bella? Oh, that's right, she's sitting trembling in a little corner. And have you noticed none of the leading women in Twilight have jobs? They're all home cooking or cleaning, while the men have fun watching the football game. But that's fine with them. Especially Bella, she'd rather stay home taking care of her dad instead of going to a good college. And whatever happened to independence? Bella cannot be left alone without a man or she'll go into a deep deppression for months. Wow, what a great example of a strong minded woman(sarcasm)
What everyone else has said; Hermione, Luna and Ginny: three unbelievably courageous girls, bros before hoes, actually have opinions about life other than their sparkly dead boyfriend, know how to stand up for what they believe in (Bella doesn't believe in anything, really, other than her bf), don't go completely useless without their guy (even after Ron left, Hermione just battled on, dying inside, but there for Harry as a friend, Ginny gave Harry one hell'a'kiss for his birthday when she found out what he was doing, instead of having sex with him and ripping up some pillows and getting herself pregnant for his seventeenth), Luna doesn't care what others think, her mother's dead, and yet she's so extraordinarily strong, inside and out. She's witty, creative, and completely crazy. I love them all. :D
My only issue with your point is that you've only stated your thoughts on Twilight, but you haven't compared it to Harry Potter. As this is the entire point of the question, could you, or someone else leaning towards Twilight, do a comparison, because we now know why you think Twilight shows women in a positive light, but why do you think it's MORE positive than Harry Potter (or why Harry Potter is negative, either way).
Also, what did you think of Bella in the other books? I found she did pretty much bugger all after the whole 'saving her mum' thing. Saving Edward just showed her stupidity. He's abusive, why would she get him back?
Book 1: Devil's Snare.
Book 2: Basilisk.
Book 3: Time Turner.
Book 4: The 3 Tasks (Accio worked on the portkey that saved Harry's life. Taught by Hermione).
Book 5: Dumbledore's Army. Warned Harry about Voldemort before going to the Ministry to save Sirius.
Book 6: Fought Death Eaters in Hogwarts.
Book 7: Helped find the Horcruxes and finally helped destroy Voldemort.
In Twilight, Isabella Swan (she hates being called Isabella right? *wicked grin*) uses one guy, when he leaves goes to the other and when the first one returns, goes back to him and so on.
Book 1: Edward
Book 2: Jacob
Book 3: Edward and Jacob
Book 4: Edward and Jacob
It's Harry Potter!
Hermione is my favourite book character, and, for want of another word,my idol. She shows strength even in the hardest times. Harry and Ron couldn't do it without her.
Ginny is strong, determined and skilled. Lily died to save her son- how brave is that? Luna doesn't care what others think.
It's people like Hermione, Luna, Ginny and Lily the next generation of women should be modelling themselves on, not whiny Bella Swan and Alice look-at-me-I'm-so-pretty-lets-go-shopping Cullen.
in the books i found bella pretty much the same.
Bella would've tried to fix it? More like, Bella would get Edward or Jacob to fix it for her, because she's a woman and can't do anything for herself.
Ginny was possessed, she didn't even know what was happening when she did Voldemort's bidding.
Bella did get tricked by James. Remember that whole fiasco where he pretended he held her mum captive and she came running without even considering that it could be a trap? Very intelligent, Bella.
Think about the way the girls in each series approach school, work, money, family, friendship, romance, danger, etc.
Also, example:
Ginny is left by Harry for her own safety. She is upset, but understanding and continues on with her life, knowing that she still loves him. She continues to lead the students, along with Neville and Luna, in rebellion against Voldemort, Snape and the Carrows, fighting for what she believes in, and holding it together because she isn't completely dependent on a man.
Bella is left by Edward for her own safety. She turns into a zombie for 4 months, cuts off contact with all her friends, sticks her head in the sand, and refuses to do anything. As soon as the next hot guy comes along, she's totally fine, apart from the whole "I'm going to put myself and my 'friends' in life-threatening situations just so I can hallucinate my ex-boyfriend's voice" thing.
Seriously, Harry Potter win right there.
We have Hermione Granger. She's a beautiful, strong woman who fights for what she believes in, like elf rights. She also fights for prejudging wizards and witches blood. She'll fight for everyone to be equal. Here's how she's better than Bella: In book one, she helps bring the trio together by nearly dieing from a troll, which was 12ft, in which Harry and Ron had to go into the girls bathroom and save her. She also helped Harry get through that ring of fire by answering the riddle and earning Gryffindor house 50 points. In book 2, she brewed a really compliacated potion, for fans of twilight it's the polyjuice potion which allows the drinker to transform into a person for one hour, and may have gotten cat's hair instead of Millecent Bulstrode's hair, but she sucessfully brewed the potion, evidence from what happened to Harry and Ron. She actullay solved the mystery of the chamber of secrets instead of Harry and Ron. In the third book, HERMIONE SLAPS MALFOY! Right across the face! She stands up for Hagrid in his case agaisnt Buckbeak. She quits a school subject and gets a 113% on her muggle-studies test(she wanted to study muggles from a wizarrd's point of view).In the fourth book, she stands up for herself as Ron accuses her of "fraternizing with the enemy". She finds that Viktor Krum has a little crush on her. She also starts S.P.E.W, a sponsor for elf rights. She solves the mystery of how Rita Skeeter's getting the scoop on her and her friends after she's banned on the Hogwarts grounds. She was the one that showed Harry all those spells to help him win the Tri-Wizard Tournement. In the fifth book, she becomes a prefect and continues S.P.E.W. She supports Harry as he prepares to battle Lord Voldemort in his fifth year. In the sixth book, Hermione get's jelous of Lavender Brown as she starts going out with Ron. She finally shows her love for Ron, and her hatred for him too, by using the oppugno spell and tries to get Ron jelous by going to Professor Slughorn's Christmas party with Cormac McLaggen. In the seventh book, she's become even more independent, and helps the other two get out of their trouble. She helps them apparate everywhere, for she passed her apparation test the best, and starts showing even stronger feelings for Ron, like how she cried when he disapparated away from the campsite after Harry and Ron had a fight, Hermione punches him in the stomach after he returns, how she solved the mystery of the Deathly Hallows along with Harry, how she FINALLY kissed Ron, and much, much more. She is the heart of the Harry Potter heroines and she rocks way better than Bella.
Next, we have Ginny Weasley, the love interest of Harry Potter. We don't see her in the first book, but in the second book, she's the star of the show, being the one controlled by Lord Voldemort(aka Tom Riddle), the one who just started her adventure at Hogwarts. She's not as smart as Hermione, but she does grab a lot of boys attention, like Dean Thomas, and of course, Harry. She plays a big role in the fifth, probably being a little sad that Harry kissed Cho. She was awesome with the reducto spell. The Sixth book, she FINALLY gets together with Harry. Though it's sad that they break up during Dumbledore's funeral, it's for her safety. The seventh book, she almost dies, which causes Mrs. Weasley to OWN Bellatrix Lestrange.
More characters are Luna Lovegood, a strange and quirky girl, who's quite strong and independent, Bellatrix Lestrange, Voldemort's best supporter, Molly Weasley, Who OWNED Bellatrix to protect her children, Nymphadora Tonks, who didn't let Lupin being a werewolf get in the way of marrying him, and having Teddy, dieing for her son. I think Harry Potter has much more female heroines than Twilight does.
In TS, when Edward leaves Bella, she is really upset and wanders around like a zombie.
Also, when Ron comes back, Hermione doesn't forgive him easily and is even ready to attack him.Whereas Bella readily welcomes Edward back after he abandons her.
Luna > Alice
Bellatrix > Victoria (even though victoria is awesome)
all harry potter girls > All twilight girls.
Twilight has... well, um, no one
Its not too late to change to Hermione, we all welcome you. :)
Tonks and Bella are very much alike in the term of clumsiness, and yet I like Tonks better. Why? Because even though she's clumsy, she has a personality, which is quirky and fun. Both are devastated when they couldn't get their lover to be with them (Remus and Edward), but Tonks, though gloomy and has less-colored hair, still works hard for the Order and helps fight the Death Eaters when they're summoned to Hogwarts. (Oh, and when Ron left, Hermione was also miserable, but that didn't stop her from keep fighting with Harry because she know what's really important).
Now I'm okay with girls that cry when they got dumped, but only if they moan and whine for less than a month. I've been broken hearted, and I cried so much that my eyes had those stupid puffy things under them. But the thing is, I moved on. The characters in Harry Potter showed that if a guy really is your soulmate and is meant for you, they won't go anywhere, so you shouldn't be miserable if they leave you. Ginny and Hermione both moved on, but in the end, they marry the boys that they loved, and they didn't even go to Bella's zombie-mode to get them.
Someone said about Esme, and I love that she/he brought that up! Esme committed suicide because her baby died. Molly, on the other hand, had lost her son, and what did she do? She finished Bellatrix so she couldn't hurt anyone else (or in this case, her family). Clearly that explains how Molly > Esme.
Another one, because I'm in the mood for ranting. Arabella Figg and Leah Clearwater are basically in the same situation. Both are an outcasts of their society, and are often underestimated. But, Mrs. Figg turns out to be the one that testified that there are really Dementors in Little Hangleton and they had attacked Harry, thus clearing him of all charges. Leah was portrayed, for lack of better words, as a selfish bitch, as said before. She had a bitter past, and I don't blame her to be so bitter around the boys (especially the ones that could read her mind). I just, I dunno, expected her to stood up for herself and say, "Yes, I'm broken-hearted, and yes, being a shape-shifter sucks. But please, just respect me because I'm more than just a whiny girl," or at least do something that made her important to the plot and finally showing those boys that she could actually do something.
Anyway, rant over. That was kind of long. xD
and Zanhar1 Bella tried to get Edward back after months of being an empty shell and technically James did trick her or did you just forget about him using her tapes that her mom made to get her to come to the ballet studio? didn't notice that someone else had already said that, sorry
XD Kidding =P I agree with all the Harry Potter peeps. And yeah got nothing else to say really, that I can think of right now. Everybody here said it all :D
But, I think Hermione's portrayal of women is more positive. Hermione shows that it's okay to be single. She also proves that you can have guy friends that you don't have to be in a couple with. She values the importance of friendship. She shows us how important it is to have brains(cleverness), and the importance of working hard.
especially ToyletGnome. :)))
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