迪士尼公主 Article: Merida VS Ariel: The Ultimate 辩论

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posted by TheFabulousFAN

Merida VS Ariel: The Ultimate 辩论
Well this will be my last 文章 before I leave fanpop
Ok so this all happened when Hatelarxene messages me on a 评论 about Anna. This will be a long debate. I know some of 你 are annoyed with this but I'm going to make in anyway so this can be over with...for me at least. I need closure on this before I leave.

From:

hatelarxene
To:

TheFabulousFAN
re: Anna
10 分钟 ago

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>>>>>>How the f*ck is Anna ugly? You're only saying that because 你 hate her (which is stupid and biased, and I don't see how anyone can hate her. She's amazing). Also, Merida sucks.
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>>>>>It's my opinion, I don't find big eyes a small mouths pretty. When 你 give me a valid reason on why Merida sucks I just might listen to you. Because I can give plenty of reasons why Ariel sucks. I can have an opinion believe it 或者 not.
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>>>>There are a million valid reasons why Merida sucks. Just read my Merida article. Ariel never needed to change, Merida did. And she didn't. 你 don't find big eyes pretty, yet 你 find Rapunzel pretty.
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>>>I don't find Rapunzel pretty, I don't know where 你 heard that from. But I find Rapunzel 更多 intelligent than Anna. Also Merida did change 你 seem to forget the scene where her and her mother are sneaking in the 城堡 and she is willing to chose a suitor to marry right then and there but her mother says that it's ok to break tradition. Don't forget at the end where she 说 "this is all my fault, I did this to you." Taking full blame of the situation. Whilst Ariel only says "I didn't mean too, I didn't know." I don't hate Ariel even though she is my least 最喜爱的 I used to have her in 3rd place but her bad qualities seemed to overshadow her good qualities. I think Ariel is a wonderful character but also selfish. Yes! I hate Anna but I'm honest with my opinions I promise on my honor I'm not biased I just don't like her, I like Elsa though. I think 《冰雪奇缘》 was crappy. Is having that opinion a problem?
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>>Funny. I thought 《勇敢传说》 was crappy. And Merida doesn't change. The movie tells us she's changed, it doesn't 显示 us she has. There's something in 写作 called "show, don't tell". 《勇敢传说》 completely ignored this, and Merida didn't change at all. People who say otherwise are delusional. And I never 说 Ariel changed, but she didn't need to. On the other hand, Merida did need to and she didn't. Her speech at the end, I don't buy at all. There's no evidence of her coming to that conclusion at the end. Does she become 更多 compassionate for others? Will she take responsibility of being a princess in the future? We don't know because the movie doesn't 显示 us, SHE DOESN'T CHANGE. Also, does that mean 你 think Elsa is pretty? They pretty much have the same f*cking face except Elsa has eyeshadow.
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>No again I don't think Elsa I pretty NONE of the CGI princesses I find pretty including Merida she is ugly ....ok. Merida hair however is beautiful. Again the movie does 显示 she changed because she was about to marry one of the suitors 展示 she is willing to take on responsibility of being a princess. And how can 你 say 你 don't 'buy' her apology she was crying in obvious deep remorse of what she had just done. Her Attitude improves at the end and she acts less bratty and selfish. 你 SEE her getting along with her mother. I'm sorry but it appears it is 你 who are delusional, how can 你 deny what 你 see right in front of your face. Maybe I should just start calling 你 Cleopatra. I tried to be nice and present FACTS to 你 but 你 keep on insulting me. I don't appreciate 你 calling me stupid simply because I think Merida is nice and Ariel not so much 或者 that I think Anna is ugly. Merida is 8th on my 列表 and Ariel is 13th I prefer Merida because of the things I just stated. If 你 have a logical response with REASONS 你 think Merida is worse than Ariel I would be happy to hear them.

I did provide logical reasons. 你 just don't seem to think they're good enough. 《勇敢传说》 sucked because it didn't 显示 us Merida changing, it only told us she has. If 你 can refute that properly, I'd be glad to hear it.

I'm trying to reason with you, What did 你 expect Merida to do, that would prove 你 she had changed that she didn't do? If 你 tell me that maybe we will get some where.

(She didn't respond back yet) if Hatelarxene would like to respond she can feel free to comment. I need to see other people's 查看 I accept and value other people's opinions and will greatly take into consideration. :) thanks for 阅读 butterflies.

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That's all

I like Merida, I dislike Ariel ...is there a problem?

Sparklefairy375, EgoMouse and 5 others like this

MacytheStrange So... this is basically a comment chain posted on an article? I do agree with you for the most part though, about Merida at least. Although I find the CGI girls pretty. Oh, but I think hatelarxene is a boy, not a girl.

TheFabulousFAN Oops...I didn't know that sorry. I meant he then.

TigerRanma In the fan art, Ariel is pretty and Merida isn't even cute. And uh, interesting debate.

Tygers_Eye When you said you were leaving because people were saying you were stupid and biased, were you talking about hatelarxene? Honestly, this person seems unnecessarily rude, juvenile, and obnoxious. This person doesn't speak for all of us. I can assure you that I find you very intelligent and thought-provoking. Sometimes I think you're unnecessarily blunt, yes, but you also admit to it and to it being your opinion that you came to from thinking it over. I actually really enjoy reading your opinions and observations. Honestly, to me an intelligent comment that's also a bit blunt is way better than a generic nice comment that doesn't have any thought behind it. ("Flynn's so hot!" "Ariel's so relatable") Honestly, even at your grumpiest I think your posts are way better than those that say their view is just a fact and anyone that doesn't see it is just an idiot (shame on you, hatelarxene!), which is sadly all too common on the internet. Thankfully it's kept at a minimum around here, but it does pop up from time to time... Well, you know I agree that I think Ariel is very selfish and needs to change. No character is perfect. Everyone can stand to learn and grow. Especially Ariel, who I think has the emotional maturity and impulse control of a 2-year-old. All she ever thinks about is what she wants in that moment and goes for it without considering the consequences of her actions or the thoughts, feelings, or needs of other people. Whenever people try to tell me how Merida did X, Y, or Z too, I'll always argue that Merida [i]learned[/i] and [i]grew[/i] from it. She was forced to see and deal with the consequences of her actions, and eventually admit she never should have done it in the first place. Other people didn't just rush in to clean up her messes and then give her everything she wanted without her even saying thank you or sorry for putting you to so much trouble. Ariel's throwaway apologies don't cut it for me either, especially since she's always shown to keep doing what she "apologized" for in the first place. P.S. I like large eyes and small mouths as a beauty design, but I don't like the CGI princesses either. Hand-drawn animation for the win!

Tygers_Eye Also, please don't leave. I'll miss seeing your comments and contributions around here. =(

324anna I just agree with everything Tygers_Eye said. Even though I actually find Rapunzel and Elsa pretty, but not Anna and Merida. I agree with your points and I find hatelarxene very rude and stupid for not accepting other people's opinion even if he doesn't have arguments to show his opinion is right. Ah and don't leave!

cuteasprincie Used words like ****,its not good.!I think that user talking to theFabulousFan does not have manners at all!

Silverrose1991 I agree completely with what Tygers_Eye said. Hatelarxene needs to grow and mature and learn to accept different opinions. Please, Olivia, don't leave. You're wonderful, even if sometimes unnecessarily blunt.

coolsinger198 go Olivia!!!

Persephone713 I agree on some points, but I do not agree at all with you about Ariel, she is not selfish at all, she is chasing a dream and being proactive and cares alot about her family. Sacrifices are often made in cases where you chase your dreams. I and many others have stated this, so I am not repeating myself again. But you say she doesnt care about her family when indeed she does. And if anyone acts like a 2-yr old its Merida. She acted very immaturely and she never learned from what she did, and quite often acted like a brat towards her mother.- IMO

Persephone713 There actually is a problem too, everytime I write an article about Ariel, I get attacked when look at all the positive comments you have. I am scared to write my own opinions. This is ridiculous. Why don't we just quit. Some people prefer Merida, others prefer Ariel. Or why dont we just look at the positive in all the Princesses, Until I came on this spot - I enjoyed Disney Princess movies, Disney movies and Characters for what they were. This is really pathetic, that we are picking apart beloved characters. Yes, I said something about Merida, but I still overrall have no opinion on her- unlike before.- and would prefer just not to talk about her. Despite the fact that she should really be with the other PIXAR females, because eventhough Disney owns PIXAR, they are separate animation studios.

purplerose17 Please don't leave! You're my BFF here! Yes, you can be pretty blunt, but that's just part of who you are! There are always going to be rude, immature people but don't forget about true friends!

Tygers_Eye Persephone: [b]"I agree on some points, but I do not agree at all with you about Ariel, she is not selfish at all, she is chasing a dream and being proactive"[/b] Sorry, but I disagree. Ariel does what she feels like doing at any given time without giving a thought or care for others, even before she "chases her dream." She misses the concert at the beginning because she's too busy searching sunken ships. She darts ahead of Flounder because she's excited to see the ship, then gets annoyed with him for taking so long. ("Flounder! Get over here!"). Flounder says, "You know I can't swim that fast" but she ignores him to gush over the ship instead. On account of not being able to swim fast, Flounder is understandably terrified of sharks, but Ariel just laughs and makes fun of him for "being such a guppy." (Lack of sympathy or empathy.) Whenever Sebastian is in the middle of talking to her, Ariel just swims away to pursue something more interesting, whether it be colorful lights on the surface, see Eric again, or go with Flounder to see the "surprise" in their grotto. Chasing a dream by itself is fine, except Ariel is shown to be self-involved and self-serving [i]before[/i] she sees Eric or commits to going to the surface. Ariel's personality, behavior, and method of "chasing her dream" at the expense of others is what I take issue with. [b]"And cares alot about her family. "[/b] No offense, but did we watch the same movie? At what point is Ariel ever shown caring about her family? Again, Sebastian reveals that she constantly misses rehearsals with him and her sisters. She misses the concert because she's too busy doing what she feels like doing that second (searching sunken ships) to give a thought to her family or obligations. After falling for Eric, she blows off her sisters to daydream about him instead. She spends all morning in her room, comes out only after they call her out, [i]admires her own reflection in the mirror[/i] (rather than acknowledging her sisters around her), only notices her dad after she bumps into him, says good morning, then just swims away singing so she can pick "He loves me, he loves me not" flowers. Honestly, Ariel abandoning her family to pursue the human world is not out of character since she's shown never to voluntarily think about or spend time with her family. Every time I see Ariel say, "If I become human, I'll never be with my father or sisters again" I think, "How's that any different from what you've BEEN doing?" If anything, I think that throwaway line is out-of-character because she's never shown thinking about them when they're not right in front of her before or after for the entire film.

Tygers_Eye Persephone: "And if anyone acts like a 2-yr old its Merida. She acted very immaturely and [b]she never learned from what she did[/b], and quite often acted like a brat towards her mother.- IMO" I'm very sorry, but once again, have we seen the same movie? Yes, Merida starts off like a two-year-old. Again, she [i]learns[/i] and [i]grows[/i]. The whole reason she decided to compete for her own hand and serve her mom the witch's pie was to avoid getting married. When she sneaks her mom back into the castle and sees the lords fighting in the dining hall, she admits to their faces that she's been selfish, and is willing to choose a husband to end the fighting. Merida: "I know now how one selfish act can turn the fate of a kingdom... I've been selfish. I tore a great rift in our kingdom. There's no one to blame but me. And I know now that I need to amend my mistakes, and mend our bond." She looks at her mother as she says this. "And so, there is the matter of my betrothal. I have decided to do what's right, and..." At this point, her mother grabs her attention and offers a different solution that can still lead to peace. Either way, this Merida is a far cry from the girl that said her mom should just call off the engagement, and "We'll expect your declarations of war in the morning! :D" (Can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7zeeUReQhM) To say nothing of Merida at the end, when it seems her mom will be a bear forever. She breaks down sobbing and says: "Oh mom, I'm sorry. This is all my fault. I did this to you... You've always been there for me. You've never given up on me. I just want you back. I want you back, mommy." (Can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUOjMsJ7NKE) Again, Merida takes responsibility for her actions, admits when she's done wrong, and is willing to do what it takes to make things right. She starts off making excuses and blaming other people, but learns and grows over the film, and is a better person by the end. I can't say the same for Ariel, who makes half-hearted excuses before getting bailed out by others. 1) When Ursula shows Triton the contract, she says "Daddy, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to, I didn't know." To me, this doesn't imply taking responsibility for her actions, admitting she's done wrong, or show a readiness to do what it takes to make things right. She's not sorry she did it, she's sorry it didn't work out the way she wanted and/or she got caught. "I didn't mean to, I didn't know" implies that she's still a victim that got tricked into signing, not a willing party that knew the terms of the contract and signed anyway. I have zero respect or pity. 2) When Triton gets turned into a polyp, Ariel again has an opportunity to admit a mea culpa. Instead of saying "What have I done?" she chooses to shift the blame completely onto Ursula. "YOU MONSTER!" Ursula is a monster, but she never forced Ariel to go with the eels or sign the contract. Ariel did that of her own free will. She knew what she was getting into as Ursula explained the terms of the contract and failure to "pay the price," and she did anyway. She is partially responsible, but doesn't accept responsibility. 3) Finally, after Ursula is destroyed and the contract shredded, Ariel again has an opportunity to apologize to her father. She doesn't. She just goes back to mooning over Eric, which is what caused the mess in the first place; showing that she hasn't learned, doesn't regret what she's done, isn't concerned for those she's hurt, etc. To me, the differences are so wide you can barely compare. Merida learns, grows, apologizes, and makes amends. Ariel just keeps doing what she was doing before the whole mess she created in the first place.

TheFabulousFAN Also Persephone713 I would recommend you reading RealityCheck's Article. Sometimes you just need to grow up. Not trying to be mean, Just trying to be truthful. Accept Ariel's flaws and move on with your life. You can still love her just admit to her obvious flaws. You are literally denying the truth.

Persephone713 Perhaps you both could use a Reality check yourselves.

TheFabulousFAN Says the little girl screaming at us for presenting FACTS to her. Well if ignorance is bliss I'm guessing your pretty darn happy. Now run along little girl the adults are talking.

TheFabulousFAN Ok, why do you hate Merida. Tell me that and we will see who is the Adult. Tygers_eye presented you with undeniable proof why she thinks Ariel is selfish. Those are facts sweetie believe it or not. So tell us a logical answer on why you think Merida is worse than Ariel. Because no one seems to have a problem with this except for you and Hatelarxene. So be the Adult you claim you are.

TheFabulousFAN And I can report you. I didn't use any fowl language whilst you did. Let's see who exactly gets reported.

Silverrose1991 Oh my God, Persephone is so ridiculous. Grow up.

fhghu Persephone, please calm down. If you see articles that insult Ariel, my best advice would be to ignore it or just comment in a civil manner that you disagree. Not type in all caps when people try to argue with you. Honestly, all the Merida hate makes me a little miffed sometimes, but I try my best to ignore it. You should too for the comments against Ariel.

Tygers_Eye Persephone: I NEVER said you needed to grow up. I simply said I disagreed with your claims regarding Ariel and Merida and used evidence from the films to explain why. I used evidence to back up my opinion, which is honestly something I have yet to see you do. If you like Ariel and dislike Merida, that is honestly your prerogative. No one's going to stop you. But if you're going to make a claim, that Ariel is not selfish and cares for her family while Merida is bratty and doesn't learn, it's a good idea to a) back up your claim with evidence from the film, b) be prepared for people to disagree with your view. Persephone: [b]You guys bitch about people not accepting Merida, when you hate Ariel and cant even back it up with facts, the facts that you guys make up are proven wrong just by watching the movie.[/b] Um, hi. Did you read my posts? I posted scenes from the film when I said Merida learned, grew, apologized, and took responsibility for her actions. The scene where Merida tells the lords she's been selfish: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7zeeUReQhM The scene where Merida tells her mom she's sorry, it's all her fault, her mom's always been there for her, and she wants her back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUOjMsJ7NKE Persephone: [b]GROW UP YOURSELVES!!! SO SHUT the FUCK UP! I am SO GOD DAMN SICK AND TIRED OF BEING GANGED UP UPON and HAVING ARIEL BEING CALLED SELFISH FOR NO REASON BY A BUNCH OF TEEN GIRLS WHO DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT>[/b] I said that I think Ariel is selfish and used literally several examples from the film. Before and after she spots Eric, before she becomes human. I also said I didn't feel Ariel's "apology" near the end was really an apology since her wording implies she's making excuses for herself instead of admitting fault. I've given you [i]plenty[/i] of examples from the film, and you have neither acknowledged nor refuted any of them. If you still claim I don't back up my views, that's on you. Persephone: [b]I don't have to admit her flaws, because she is not selfish-she has flaws but that is not the right word. You guys hate Ariel for no reason. That is plain and simple. There is no way of getting around it anymore[/b] Can you give me specific examples or refute the ones I provided for you?

Persephone713 I think WE ALL need to grow up. By the way, people get angry and swear when they feel they are having a panic attack from being ganged up on, on the internet for the millionth time. GO AHEAD deny it. But you guys do it. Its ridiculous. I guess its easy for me to be the " bad guy/stupid person/ or the wrong person" when its 4 against 1- You guys are doing the same thing to Hatelarxene - I guess I was trying to be a nice person and stick up for a fellow Ariel lover. Lots of " Pot calling the kettle black" going on here too. There Im done.

TheFabulousFAN I see...enjoy yourself :)

Tygers_Eye Persephone: I'm sorry you feel that way. By the way, thanks for reading the posts that took me 30+ minutes to construct for you. I went to all the trouble of organizing my thoughts, compiling evidence, posting links, and wheedling down the word count to make it as easy for you to read as possible, and you won't even do me the courtesy of acknowledging that you actually read my posts.